who hasn't heard of the Virginia Tech shootings on the 16th? do you find yourself wondering, like me, what could cause someone to go on such a shooting rampage? was he crazy? mentally ill? some say he was... but when things like this happen, i find myself wondering about the individual... what caused that person to snap on that day?
cho had been planning this spree for months.... maybe even years. many are saying that he had a hit list back in high school... but would you say that that's a sign that ppl should look for when watching for other killers to emerge in the future? does a hit list make you a killer?
why would he have a hit list? was it because he was picked on? some ppl can be really cruel to others. some say that ppl picked on him because of his accent. saying that he murmured .... so what did cho do? he stopped talking. many at Virginia Tech assumed that he didn't speak fluent english and that's why he was so quiet.
i wonder when thinking about all of it... wondering if he had already gone over the edge at this point and was he past the point of no return even before starting at Virginia Tech. had the teasing and such been taken so far while in high school that it had made him sorta crazy? crazy in a sense that he hated these ppl or ppl like them for doing this to him.
and what about girls. from what ppl are saying, he stalked them... or some. two girls had turned him into police for doing such. his first victim was a girl that some say he had been having a relationship w/ while others are saying that it just isn't true. will anyone ever really know? the girl apparently had a boyfriend or had just broken up w/ her long time boyfriend. soooooo.... why did he kill her first, i wonder? she wasn't in his bldg. he walked to her bldg. and went to the 4th floor, where she was in her room and that's where he killed her.
tonight on this Fox News' special, they are saying that the two had a shouting match first, then a guy from down the hall came to her room to see what was going on and that's when the shooting occurred. he killed both of them...
he then left and waited for two hours before starting his 2nd killing spree. but why wait? had he anticipated what would happen? did he record his last message at this time? he mailed his manifesto and videos to NBC right before starting the 2nd spree....
his sister graduated from Princeton... an Ivy League school in the States.... his family moved to the U.S. when he was 8 yrs old. they have a dry cleaning business and have done everything possible to provide for their children - sending them to the best schools and such. when cho started at Virginia Tech, they had high hopes for him..... ppl are saying. can you imagine his family and how his mom and dad must feel? i wonder if they knew he had been in a mental hospital. the dr. that saw him at the hospital stated that cho seemed normal.
to be honest, when i think about this and try to analyze it... i find myself going to when he came to the States. i think about his years in junior high and high school. how mean kids can be... some teachers can also be rude and thoughtless when dealing w/ a student. i can remember this kid from my 4th grade class that used to get into hair pulling fights w/ our teacher. they'd get into knock down, drag out fights... and i'm not kidding you. i remember the kids name... i'll never forget it. i later found out that this kid had been abused, both physically and mentally, by his mother. she used to lock him in closets for long periods of time. this boy was really mean and i wonder what happened to him. it was a different time then... kids didn't bring guns to school and shoot ppl. sadly, he's probably abusing his own kids... if the truth be known.
so .... thinking about all of this makes me wonder. have you ever been picked on in school? been bullied, called names, had ppl pick fights w/ you for no reason other than being different?
they say that ppl should have known that cho was on the edge because of his writings. his creative writing teacher was very concerned about his mental state and even told the higher ups about him. this is why he had to go into the mental hospital - to be evaluated and to get counseling. i wonder if the dr. that evaluated him, now blames himself for not seeing the rage inside of this guy and calling it differently... wondering if it would have made a difference. it could have made it harder for him to get guns... that's one thing... altho he bought two of them off of eBay... and i wonder if they run checks before purchases of such on eBay....
i will say this.... there are many famous ppl/directors/writers out there that write such blood and gore on a monthly, if not more often, basis and make lots of money because of it. look at the movie, Pulp Fiction. what about Saw, Saw II, Saw III and others.... all of these films are filled w/ all of the same type of things that cho wrote about. killing. and about ppl who feel nothing for their victims.
these types of movies are mainstream America.... isn't America known for these types of movies? ppl get off on watching such. so... in looking at this guys' writing - cho.... was the writing a real indication of mental illness? i don't believe so. does it show that he was a murderer? he wrote about killing his teacher and other ppl.... turned these into his creative writing teacher... his fellow students were afraid of him and afraid to criticize or critique any of his work for fear that it would send him over the edge. but why? because the papers were filled w/ the blood and gore of someone that could have possibly turned his rage into such movies as other directors have done..... or so i think.... if he had been encouraged instead of criticized long ago..... or maybe not. maybe he was too far gone by this point.
what would you say finally drove him to viciously kill so many teachers and students?
school is tough... junior high and high school can be some of the roughest years for kids. if you don't have the right name, you're made fun of. if you look different, talk different, dress different or if you aren't rich enough or even too rich.... you can be bullied, teased or made fun of. some will do anything to make it a living hell for others... not caring and feeling an ounce of regret after their evil deed is done...
the guys who killed those kids at columbine were bullied.... for years prior, i believe.
does one ever forget what ppl say or how they treat you? i don't think so. i can remember being in the 7th and 8th grades and experiencing this. just the other day i was compiling some stuff to take to the embassy for Naief's passport and as i was looking thru my yearbooks, i was reminded of so many things. i have a yearbook from, i think, the 4th grade, that has "x's" over some ppl's faces.... what does that say about me?
my accent was made fun of when i moved to texas from indiana. they made fun of me for talking fast. they would say, "yankee, go home" and then mock me. even in junior high i was bullied by a few girls...
these aren't fond memories.
does this mean i'm sane in that it didn't send me over the edge? or is it because i'm a girl that it wasn't the same. is it different for guys? does it affect that male gender differently? to be honest, i had a hit list when i was young. it wasn't on paper but i had a list of ppl that i truly disliked in my head... i think it was when i was in the 3rd or 4th grade - i can remember back to my room but not my age... i wanted my teddy bear to come to life and do some serious damage to a few ppl. that were mean to me. not that i wanted teddy to get an automatic rifle and blow chunks outta ppl.... no... i just wanted teddy to hurt them in some form or fashion. maybe rip them to shreds w/ his claws or something... i can't recall.... - needless to say, i had and still have an active imagination...
maybe it started out that way for cho.... and for some reason it went in a very bad direction or was it that he was mentally ill from the very get go - from birth. would anything have mattered in his case? could someone have made a positive difference in his life?
what do you think?
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Sociopaths are people who are incapable of feeling empathy for their victims. They have huge egos and are very childish. Basically they are the center of their own universe and they view the most trivial slight as a unforgiveable crime against the supreme being that is Themselves. That's what makes them so angry all the time.
I don't think this is about a kid who couldn't fit in at a foreign school. In this day and age, with the world becoming as small as it is and families becoming so mobile, his experience is hardly unique.
No, something much deeper was wrong with him. It would have made him snap sooner or later. If it hadn't been playground bullies, it might have been a work problem or a difficult personal relationship. Sooner or later something would have made him snap.
I'd like to see more research into what makes some people socipathic in the first place. And if it can be caught early and prevented.
loulou, if i'm not mistaken, his creative writing teacher took him aside to help him and she said that he had a huge ego and was somewhat obnoxious... but said that he was terribly insecure and was using this to cover it.
i find it interesting that the counselor at the hospital said he was normal... makes one wonder how such could be considered normal.
i also think like you in that i believe if he hadn't done this at college, he would have done it later, most likely.... but there's still a part of me that wonders if someone could have made a difference in his life.
i don't know how schools are here and such, but bullying can be very terrible in the States... it drives children over the edge lots of times. i've seen some shows on Oprah and other programs about children that are bullied and it gets to a point that the child either wants to commit suicide or wants to kill the individuals... so i do think that even w/ the world being mobile, that children can suffer devastating hits to their soul by bullies at school, on the playground and even in the workplace.
i've seen what bullying is like... more than i write about here.... and i know how it made me feel. i also saw other kids being bullied terribly and picked on, but it was a different time then. nowadays, kids can get guns easily and take their revenge on ppl. that's what happened at columbine and has happened in other schools. and i think this cho did it for some of the same reasons.
altho, his great aunt said that he was a troubled child which leads me to believe that maybe he was a sociopath, like you say. i'd like to see more research on what causes this as well. these things really interest me... as well as what makes ppl become serial killers.
I've heard some recordings of his last words. It was very disturbing ! How on earth did the doctor not notice that the guy wasn't all there is beyond me ! Abuse as a child by peers could fuel hatred especially if you were from a different country "culture" towards all what's related to the new country ! But still to go and do such a massacre is just plain inexplainable !
munther, he was obviously a smart guy because i think he tried and succeeded at fooling the dr.
he obviously knew that if he showed his true self he might be committed or something. this is why i agree w/ loulou in that he was prob a sociopath.
it's too bad that his parents weren't able to help him or his sister. this, in particular, has made me wonder about his home life prior to college. if that had anything to do w/ what he became.
Hello Tooners,
Its midnight here and i am still at work. And you know i read your post and i feel that i would love to shoot someone right now :)
I know its a bad joke, but couldnt stop myself:))
Ok its time to go home.
Take care
Puppy.
and i agree... his words were very disturbing. did you notice he was reading from something.... i guess his manifesto.
aaahhh puppy, so you have a hit list!!? ;)
me too!!!! :)
i'm sooo glad to see you posting here. i've been thinking about you. i can't hardly believe you are still at work. that's what sucks about the big firms!! are you working tons of overtime??
i was at your blog today. beautiful pics you have there. :)
Cho's sister said he never talked much and he did attempt violence at home. I like what Loulou says, and add to that the pressure of having an Asian family - they are often very critical of their children, and it causes even female Asians to lash out, though not with guns, more with self-destructive behaviour. Now I am no specialist so I say no more, but you get my drift as regards East Asian culture. I also read somewhere that having an imperfect cihld like Cho, with his mental problems, would have been a shame on the family and they would not have taken steps to treat it, rather they would have preferred to hide it.
Also, as for blood and gore, you would probably pass out if you saw some of the sadistic, perverse, violent Japanese movies/comics/manga out there. And what's more they are a much more repressed society. Imagine if they had guns. I use Japan as an example, but there is some relation in Korea too.
Even if someone did reach out to Cho and he was able to develop some semblance of a normal life, really it was just a time bomb waiting to go off. Excuse the violent simile.
Tooners, have you heard that some American "news" sources are now trying to suggest Cho had a possible "Islamic" connection? They couldn't hesitated to point out that he used the nickname "Ismail Ax", which was also tattooed on his arm. (Apparently "Ismail" is the Islamic spelling of Ishmael.)
Someone claiming to be an FBI agent called into the Michael Savage radio talk show and said that they had evidence Cho had a friend who is suspected of ties to radical Islam.
Meanwhile, fundamentalist Christians in the U.S. government are trying to blame the VT shooting on the fact that schools teach evolution.
It's sad how people can take a tragedy and try to turn it into a social/political farce...
moody, funny that you mention this because one day when i was listening to the coverage, i overheard that name "ismail" and wondered about it... but figured it was some name he took on.
it doesn't surprise me in the least that they're trying to say he had fundamentalist connections now or radical islamic connections. they'll take anything and try to make it look like it's islam's fault... i think. any way to turn more ppl against it and to scare the public into believing what's happening in iraq is a good thing, and maybe even going after iran is a good thing.
i saw a guy on oprah a few days back. he was the brother of a girl that was killed in columbine. he was taking the same turn that i am w/ this, saying that if only ppl had reached out then maybe someone could have made a difference w/ these ppl... and the deep down inside of me part, the part of me that was bullied as a young girl, feels the same. i can only imagine how it would have been if that bullying would have continued into my high school years. i thank God that we moved and i left that school. it doesn't pay to be different.
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