Thursday, March 01, 2007

circumcision.... here we come

Sunday is the baby's one month birthday.... he'll no longer be a newborn but will now be an infant. Not sure that it makes a huge difference, but I'm starting to see changes in him. For one, he's starting to focus better, his motor skills are in full swing, he's eating a lot more, loves to sit up (w/ my support of course) and watch the goings-on around him, and is developing a small bit of his very stubborn personality....ok, maybe a large bit. :)

One big thing that will happen this Sunday is his circumcision. I'm dreading it. I know it only takes a few minutes, but the thought of him having the pain, even for that long, is more than I can bear. My husband's brother had the surgeon videotape the surgery and I think Hashim wants to do the same, but I really can't imagine it. I guess it's a guy thing. But really, in thinking about it, who would want to see such a thing once they get older?!! What guy would want to see that being done to him as a baby? My husband's brother thinks it's soooo cool and is very proud of the fact that he had it videotaped, but, really, I see no point in it. But... then again, maybe I'm missing something.

Things have been going well, for the most part. The baby has a lot of gas and cries from it a lot late at night, but I think it's getting better... altho, I say that and then it gets bad again... so w/ time, I know it'll pass... and once he starts rolling over it's supposed to considerably lesson... so I wait for the day. I'm dead tired. Sometimes late in the night (or the wee hours of the morn.), I find that I can barely keep my eyes open to feed him. I try to keep things as quiet as possible when he wakes up for early morn. feedings so that he won't wake up entirely cuz the little bugger is difficult to get back to sleep.

One morn. I learned my lesson the hard way... I think I talked to him a little too much and then changed his diaper (which is a big no no when he wakes up unless you have no other choice).... after that, he refused to go to sleep, so I spent a good hour 1/2 rocking him in my arms and trying to get him to calm down so he'd drift back to sleep. And once he's fallen asleep in my arms, putting him down on the bed is not so easy because as soon as I move my arms, he starts complaining and usually wakes up. He loves to fall asleep on me though and most days I can't deny him.... but after a while it kills my back and my arms and after two months, he'll expect it all the time, so I'm working on getting him to fall asleep on his own, but it's hard. He loves to sleep next to me and since he's a little angel.... well, you know what I'm gonna say... it's tough.

The hubby has been doing a pretty good job in helping me out, but he can sometimes be a big grouch at 3 and 4 a.m.... so I often find it easier to do things myself. And... when I wake him up in the wee hours, it's hard for him to wake up and if I say something, he usually doesn't understand me. I always wished for a deep sleep like that and have never had it... so I guess it's a good thing now. I've noticed that the baby is a light sleeper like me, which isn't a good thing, let me tell ya! But, it helps me out because whenever I hear anything from the baby, I wake up immediately.... so I find that I don't feel so afraid.

The in-laws... well, I've been staying at our house and away from that unwanted stress. I find it easier to be here and to do things on my own. Even if I make mistakes... at least I learn from them. I do things differently than this culture does and find that it isn't looked at as a positive thing. And it's not just the in-laws that make the comments... I find that some women feel like it's their duty or think it's ok to butt in and give their opinions about things that are really none of their business. I can't tell ya how many times I've been told not to put the baby in an infant car seat! If I saw things from their point of view, I'd be hurting my baby and damaging his bones, as well as bruising him. And.. I've heard the same about carrying the baby in my arms.... and from not wrapping the baby like a mummy.... so many ppl say the same thing... I'm hurting him or will make his bones bad. When I hear this, all I want to say is... "ok... do you see all the ppl from the West crippled?... NO! So leave me the hell alone, ok!!" This also goes for holding the baby. I'm told over and over that I should only hold him so that he's on his side w/ his arms pulled into the front. If I don't pull them into the front, they tell me that he'll grow up w/ his arms/shoulders bent backwards.... it's hard to explain what I mean here or what's told to me, but it's not true. I know that the baby won't grow up w/ his shoulders bent backwards.... and plus... I don't want his shoulders pulled inwards anyhow. I know that my baby isn't going to break when I hold him... but many seem to think he will.

But... I don't say anything. I mind my tongue. I will say though, my niceness in this area is running thin and it may not be too far down the road that I make my opinions known and when I do... well, I know it won't be looked at as a positive thing. So be it though.

I found out from my hairdresser that most of the British don't circumcise their sons... and a lot of ppl in the U.S. don't do it.... and Indians don't do it.... so I was talking to my husband and told him that we shouldn't do it! ;) Here he didn't want to neuter our cat but he can't leave well enough alone and not circumcise his son... I find it funny and love to tease him about it. Not that I wouldn't do this, because I know it's better for the child and a lot cleaner, but.... the thought of it... well, it hurts my heart to know that he might be in pain and how it will probably hurt to have it done. But I guess w/ the cat, it was different. At least we're not removing the baby's testicles! ;) :)

One of my SILs told me that her son slept thru it, which I think is a bare face lie. Maybe he was asleep prior to it being done, but I know a child/baby wouldn't sleep w/ that type of pain. I've seen my baby sleeping prior to having his blood drawn and as soon as they start to take it, he screams in pain. Now... you tell me how they can circumcise a child and he not feel it because he's sleeping???? I don't believe her. I can't stand it when ppl lie for the sake of lying. Does she think I'm stupid?! I think she does.

Anyway... today's been good so far altho I got vomited on earlier today, and I mean so much so that all of my clothes were drenched in it. Poor little guy. He didn't cry... he just matter of factly threw up all over me... and all over himself. Gosh, I've never seen a baby throw up like that before... the stuff just spewed outta him.... like a little volcano! ;) It kept coming and coming. I found that I got mad at my husband for feeding him too much.... the baby kept crying and he thought he was hungry, when he actually needed his diaper changed! So.... I got good and covered. It's okay though cuz I know it won't be the last time... and when it's your child... it's okay.

Happy day everyone.


Beanie's Appa said...

Is your husband muslim or something? there's no real good reason to circumcise. The reported benefits are not greater than the known risks (i.e. the rate of penis cancer in uncut men is lower than the chance of death from circumcision complications) It's not inherently cleaner, he'll have to bathe and wash it either way. Circumcision is dirtier in diapers anyway. You'll be putting a surgical wound in there with all that baby pee and poop.

And no, you buddy's son did not sleep through it. I've read accounts of nurses trained to tell parents that so they won't worry, and other accounts that babies who appear to sleep through it have actually passed out from the intense pain. It is as painful as you fear, so at the least, insist on anaesthesia.

Don't be afraid of all the recent HIV news, either. Condoms work better.

tooners said...

beanie's appa,ok... you're scaring me here!! yes, my husband is muslim and insists on it. i DO NOT like the idea of it and am fearing it more than you can imagine. they don't give anaesthesia here because it's a baby. if he were more than 6 mths, they would, but they insist on doing it from 1 mth. i do not feel good about this and am now very concerned, but i have no choice in this matter. oh.... this worries me.... and now the thought of him passing out from the pain.... i don't think my heart can take it.

Beanie's Appa said...

Sorry to scare you, so I'll try to play devil's advocate for you. I was circumcised as a baby without anaesthesia and I lived. Not many babies die from circumcision, Penis cancer is just that rare - men are more likely to get breast cancer, if you can imagine that.

At the hospital where my son was born, in USA, they refuse to circumcise without any anaesthesia, but they won't use general, just local, so the babies still have get hurt by the needle. We took the easier route of just not circumcising.

All I can say is let your husband know you are opposed to this, and afraid of the consequences. I have the feeling your husband is probably insisting so your son will fit in better with his community/family/religion, etc, rather than for supposed health benefits. Men can be scary about that, like in India/Pakistan, they are genetically the same people, but the Muslims cut and the Hindus don't cut, and they use their penises to prove what group they belong to.

So then it comes down to this: how often do you expect people outside of your family to see your son's penis? and how much will you sacrifice so your son can fit in with his dad's group?

tooners said...

beanie's appa, well.. i've been doing research on the net about it and found out exactly the same info you just gave me. i plan to ask the surgeon who is supposed to do the procedure on sunday if he plans to use any anaesthesia, altho i know the answer will be no because he didn't w/ my BILs baby. i told my husband that since we're doing it, i insist on local anaesthesia. i plan to call all the hospitals here and see if there are any that give the local... if not, well... i'm really leaning towards waiting until i take the baby to the States and then having it done. i don't the baby to have any pain and from everything i read on the net, the baby experiences intense pain from this procedure.

i also agree w/ you and think my BILs child passed out from the pain, which is really sad. i don't want my baby feeling anything like that.

Hashim said...

"And... when I wake him up in the wee hours, it's hard for him to wake up and if I say something, he usually doesn't understand me."

FYI, I do understand what you say. It just takes me a bit longer to process it.

Anonymous said...

Your doing fine with Naief. It's so funny how everybody has the (right) answer for raising Naief. You stick to your guns. It is hard when you have a baby with gas. My grandson had gas pains too; he wasn't comfortable sometimes.We all walked and rocked him a lot. He will out grow of them. I just have one comment. Are they crazy to think an infant doesn't need to be in a car seat? Oh my word; this, was scary to hear.


TLC Tugger said...

Even though Sunday's sneaking right up on you, you of course still have the power and duty to protect your son from unneeded amputation of over half the sensual nerve endings he will ever have. Circumcision removes the equivalent of 15 square inches of adult mucosal interface and eliminates the wonderful natural frictionless rolling/gliding mode of interaction for a man and his partner. It leaves the glans unprotected from drying and abrasion. That's if done well, but 20% have unintended results since everything is so small and since the skin must be torn from the glans (like peeling fingernails) as it is normally fused for the first few years.

Over 80% of the world is intact, and the percent choosing to give up the foreskin is vanishingly small. Even in the US, the rate of cutting infants has dropped to nearly 50/50 (less than 30% are cut in 4 western states). In Sweden they did a study to find that only 1 in 10,000 will ever have a problem best solved by circumcision.

Forget about these recent AIDS findings. ONE - They aren't recommending infant circ. TWO - By the time today's infant is sexually active, there may be a vaccine. Even if circ somewhat reduces a man's risk, it doesn't change his partner's risk or prevent pregnancy the way condoms do. 450,000 US men who were cut at birth have died of AIDS.

May I suggest that you and your husband invest 20 minutes and learn more about the natural penis than US med students are told by their graduation day. Watch this video:

There is no emergency. Every mammal on earth evolved a foreskin before there was surgery or even soap. You can ask your husband to take a month and wear the comfortable discreet Your-Skin Cone. It let's him keep is skin rolled forward over the glans so he can sense how much more pleasure receptive a penis can become. I'll send you a cone free if you will just wait those 4 weeks. After he has worn it, HE will insist that nothing is cut from your son (and he'll enjoy his new suppleness also).


Hashim said...

Ok, this conversation is starting to take a different path. I don't think I'll want to wear a con, Ron. There is no clear evidence that cut ppl do not have the same pleasure as uncut ppl. Plus, for many obvious reasons, my son will be circumcised, and that is that.

tooners said...

amirah, let me tell ya.... most of the population here ride around w/ their infant children in the laps of housemaids and once the child is at an age for standing and such, the child tends to stand in the car while moving - either in the back seat or front or sometimes in between the parents in the front. there are no laws here to protect children and many have been thrown from cars, but it still doesn't deter parents from doing it. a lot of ppl would never consider putting their child in a car seat. it seems foreign to me.

ron, in a situation such as this, i do believe it's up to the father to decide, and my husband has decided on the path we'll take. my one and only concern is making sure that the dr. who does the procedure uses anaesthesia. i will not have my child put thru any pain, no matter what most ppl say around here - "the child doesn't feel it"... because i do not believe that to be the case.

Jane said...

I have very strong beliefs towards circumsicion. I did not put my son through it as I think it is a barbaric and medieval form of torture. It's unnecessary. If a health issue arises and it is warranted then and only then would I consent to it. My feeling is that I will leave my child the way they came to me; if they want to mutilate their bodies later, fine. It's their body, not mine. I have tried in vain to talk others out of the practice but people are much more concerned with that the boy should look like his father or peer pressure to conform. I think it is cruel.

As for the gas problem, one thing that often works is this: put the baby on his back and move his legs slowly like he is pedaling a bike. I have found that it seems to be an effective way to help the gas find its way out.

I really feel for you on the tiredness issue. I was so tired after my son was born (he rarely slept) that I began to hallucinate. The walls and floor looked like they were breathing. And there were times when I honestly didn't know if I was awake or asleep and dreaming. This too shall pass. My heart is with you.

The Moody Minstrel said...

And lo, with a word, the anti-circumcision activists do appear from out of the woodwork...

All I know is that, as a circumcised male living in a country that doesn't circumcise (Japan), I sometimes tend to have guys stare at my nether region when I use urinals in public or school rest rooms.

I also know that my uncircumcised son gets infected in there, which bothers him a lot more than getting circumcised as a baby did me.

Whatever, dude.

tooners said...

jane, i understand your feelings and find myself thinking along the same lines, but w/ the last few lines of what you said about being or looking like the father and such... well, that's my situation here and since it's a religious thing in this part of the world... going in the other direction is not an option. you know, i feel the way you're talking about as far as not knowing if i'm awake, dreaming or such. i find that when i'm feeding him (and he doesn't sleep a lot in the night), that i will go in and out of some state and feel like a walking zombie a lot. i've had a constant headache... i guess from a lack of sleep. ppl tell me to sleep when he sleeps, but i find it very difficult to do because i've never been one to sleep during the day.

moody, interesting to know that the japanese don't do it either... i was wondering about that. and yes, i'm seeing ppl appear on this blog topic that i've never seen before... they just pop out of nowhere. ;) but... i will say this, it has helped me to do some research and know that i want pain meds and such. altho, a friend of mind said that she saw her oldest son being done and it took a matter of seconds and he felt more pain afterwards than during, but it was manageable... but i still want some type of pain meds. for him.

i can't imagine how it feels to be looked at or stared at for that reason. i think i wouldn't use the public areas.. not sure though.

Peceli and Wendy's Blog said...

Gosh, I don't think you need any more advice from us! but thanks for sharing your anxieties. Some writers are just scaring you. To do or not to do - that is the question. There are reasons either way. Mainly it is a cultural thing. But hey, in Fiji some little boys get 'done' when they are seven to nine and that hurts a bit more!

Re a crying baby - we used to take a drive in the car for a couple of kilometres and the kid would immediately sleep!
Do you have a silent house and that's why the baby wakes so easily. Maybe have the radio on a bit more - background talking or music so he doesn't get startled by sudden noise. We raised three sons and they had a good childhood, unfussed but busy.

That's my bit for today.

Vic said...

Tooners, the baby's peripheral nerves are not that well developed so he is not going to experience too much pain. But they develop fast so circumcision should not be delayed like a year - it gets more painful then. Just ask the surgeon and rely on his/her opinion. He would be using a local without asking if this was indeed a problem. Don't worry. he will be just fine.

Best regards,

Vic (MD in the US)

gazza27 said...

That month went quick(maybe not for you's)i remember my mrs feeding our cath and she went sick on her,my mrs having a week stomach then went sick herself,then as i was trying to clean the mess up i went sick,god's truth,the joys of parenthood?

Jane said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Olivia said...

As you have made your decision, I am not going to elaborate on my opinion (which is for non-circumcision because my dad once said something enlightening about the benefits...LOL funny to think back on it because it was the first thing he'd said to me that might make a daughter say, "EW, Dad, too much info!" but I just stayed matter-of-fact and felt rather grown up that he thought I could take it.
If you were pro, I would have told you though.)

As for your son's colic, there is a great old European natural remedy that's worked for all the babies I know, and it's gripe water. Comes in a bottle, it's colourless, it works its way into his tum and poof! - the air gets burped out on both ends, no more crying.

Rolling over is a good thing not only to push out the wind, but once he starts rolling, if you let him have sessions on the floor for a few minutes on his belly, it's great exercise for strengthening his back and neck and legs. He might hate it at first, but all the babies I have watched naturally end up pushing up, relaxing, pushing up, relaxing. In fact, as an exercise it is still recommended for us adults!

P.S. They are calling my mum "Aunty Grandma" over in Canada now! ;)

tooners said...

olivia, i read the pros of not circumcising online, but the hubby would hear nothing of it. i didn't even know the pros of such.. and yes, i agree... i think for your father to talk to you about that... well, he thought of you as rather grown up, i'm sure. but i agree, i think i would have also said, "ew dad, that's too much info!"

we have gripe water but it was making him sick a bit. i think he may be a bit too young for it or something. not sure. but if he continues w/ the pain, then i might try it again. got some other meds from the dr. for it and it seems to help. we put him on his belly today but he HATED it. this is something we'll do once he gets a little older, cuz like you, i also believe it to be a great exercise and one that'll strengthen all the right muscles and get him ready to crawl and such. :)

wendy, we went out in the car tonight and he loved it. slept the entire time.. no crying, nothing. seems like he suffers the most at night... not sure why though. but i also have tried the bicycle thing w/ his legs and he doesn't seem to like it too much, but i'll keep w/ it. he's a little stubborn thing, i'll tell ya that much! :)

vic, THANKS for your words of advice. we found out today that the surgeon will be using a local and will also give us meds to bring home w/ us. he said that the meds at the time will last 6 hrs so he'll be good for a while after we get home. again, thanks. :)

gazza, nothing has made me sick yet. when he threw up all over me, all i could think was "where is all of this coming from"... i just wonder how it'll be when his poo gets worse. now, that is something that i think could turn my stomach faster than anything cuz smells really get to me. and the hubby, well, i know he'll never do it.

Olivia said...

Yes, to use gripe water, babies have to be over one month.

(In the end, I am actually glad he told me what he did, may come in handy one day...)